Curse

Redfeather1975 · Sep 16, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

A lot of things look worthless on their own.
Min/maxer players will stack effects and it starts to show there.
You can get noticeable extra damage with the right combination of mods and right combination of skills/enchants/stances.

FelixCarter · Sep 16, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akuma

The conclusion is that your math is flawed.

Wow. That was very constructive.

On a side note, it's odd that there are still some green modded weapon combos missing from the game. An example is Daggers with +5 Energy, +30 Health, and 20%/20% armor penetration. There are a number of other combos mission from the green system, too.

Also, good job on looking into this. While it's a very rough estimate, I think it deserves some appriciation. Kudos.

Lord Natural · Sep 16, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Unless your particular combo won't work without 5 more energy than you can muster, there is no reason to use +5 daggers. In pvp, playing an offensive role you want every single point of damage you can squeeze out. In pve, if you find a +5 makes things easier, there's no reason not to use it. You can probably use your starter daggers and complete the campaign easily.

Batou of Nine · Sep 16, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Lets preach everyones favorite sermon...

"It all comes down to preference!"

This age old fortune cookie, wise-man, etc etc remark still holds true. Just by the posts in this thread you can see there are lots of opinions on why to use either dmg or energy inscription.

I personall do the trade-off. In order to maintain as HIGH criticals as i can get i use 7-17 dmg, 15^50 daggers, and all i need to maintain a sufficient energy pool is a Zealous mod on them daggers. gg

The math by the OP is appreciated, but highly unnecessary. BTW, this belongs in the Assasin's Forum. The OP was a fun read tho!

cheers.

X Cytherea X · Sep 16, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

i run 16 dagger, 15^50, and vamp. it all adds up in the long run. +5e is for lazy sins who cant manage energy. most of the time anyway, you will be using energy from the bottom of your bar, making the +5e have an effect only at the start of the match. it's waste of an upgrade.

Bug John · Sep 16, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

daggers are low damage weapon ? did you forget they have the fastest attack speed ?

if daggers had more than 7-17 dmg, they'd be totally imba with double and critical strikes

besides, you can easily strike for 100+ damage with most dual attacks

damage from daggers mostly comes from skills (added damage, conditions, enchant removal), so 15^50 may be less important than on a hammer, but you don't really need +5 energy all the time

Sab · Sep 16, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

By default, you'd run 15^50 to dish out as much damage as possible. If you don't have enough energy for your combo, use Radiant's insignias. If you still don't have enough energy, get a new combo. I don't see why you'd gimp yourself out of some damage, considering that there's a big difference between leaving your target with 0hp and leaving him with 1hp.

Stormlord Alex · Sep 16, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

daggers are low damage weapon ? did you forget they have the fastest attack speed ?

Same attack speed as swords/axes, actually. Gets faster on auto-attack due to double strikes... but auto-attacking with daggers is pretty pathetic and not worth mentioning.

Anyho, a 15^50 vs +5e debate?

For the most part... 15^50 on daggers. Sins are a damage dealing class, revovling around spikes, and as such you want to max out their damage.

+5e is a set I'd want when I've picked up too much DP to pull of my entire chain. Till then, I'd rather up my chances of killing something with a few extra damage.

MrSlayer · Sep 16, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Intriguing. You should test again for, as was said, a different weapon. Would be interesting to see how it effects the average damage on something with a much larger damage range. Perhaps a scythe or an axe.

I love this little war. When presented with actual research, people are still defensive. To be honest, I can see why you might still use it. +4 damage might not seem like much, but if you are using a build with maybe 5-6 attack skills, each with varying + damage, you might find that +20-+30 across your entire chain is all that would be needed with a +5e set to finish the bastard off.

Still, as I said, gogo Axe/Scythe test O_O

RhanoctJocosa · Sep 16, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Why on earth did you make this pointless thread?

You don't need +5e daggers with Critical Strikes.

Noone cares about your gold daggers.

Learn to play.

Yanman.be · Sep 16, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

So like...you're dumb enough for not using Wild Blow to test your results...and why should we care? I use 15>50. I use +5e. I don't care what you think is best. Real sins swap.

Mork from Ork · Sep 16, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

First, thanks to the OP for testing this out.

However, reading this thread it sounds like what it comes down to is that both +15dmg and +5 energy are sort of unnecessary for us sins with our great skills and attacks.

Those mods were made for the poor warriors and other profs who just aren't as good as us and needed a little boost.:P

Selket · Sep 16, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Most good assassins carry 15^50 zealous and 15^50 vamp daggers

You forgot elemental.

Diddy bow · Sep 16, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Math flawed or not +5 is still better to use :P

Bug John · Sep 16, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Same attack speed as swords/axes, actually. Gets faster on auto-attack due to double strikes... but auto-attacking with daggers is pretty pathetic and not worth mentioning.

because when your attack skills are not recharged you're just standing here doing nothing...

soul of seraphs · Sep 16, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Why on earth did you make this pointless thread?

You don't need +5e daggers with Critical Strikes.

Noone cares about your gold daggers.

Learn to play.

1) I made it because it was bugging me, not because i wanted to see how many bees nests i can stir up.

2) Youre right, you dont NEED it, its just better to have it.

3) I CARE ABOUT MY GOLD DAGGERS, DICK. besides, aside from the salient daggers those are just some daggers i bought specifically for the experiment.

4) I play just fine, ty. I dont need or want your input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

So like...you're dumb enough for not using Wild Blow to test your results...and why should we care? I use 15>50. I use +5e. I don't care what you think is best. Real sins swap.

Wild blow? are you joking? I honestly seriously hope to god you mean wild 'strike'. And switching doesnt make you a 'real sin' it makes you just that much more distracted. there i go re-quoting myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mork from Ork

First, thanks to the OP for testing this out.

However, reading this thread it sounds like what it comes down to is that both +15dmg and +5 energy are sort of unnecessary for us sins with our great skills and attacks.

Those mods were made for the poor warriors and other profs who just aren't as good as us and needed a little boost.:P

you have.....! ...a pretty good point there, actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist Hero

Soul your good but you won't help a fellow Sin out with farming. Therefore your not a nice player.

How the hell did you find me!? X0 ZOMGZ!!!

Clord · Sep 16, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ungues_of_the_Forgotten

Good for skill bars what require a lot energy for attack combo repeating.

Faer · Sep 16, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul of seraphs

Wild blow? are you joking? I honestly seriously hope to god you mean wild 'strike'.

No, he means Wild Blow. The one skill that always maxes out your base damage potential in testing circumstances by guaranteeing a critical hit on your target. It's simply superior.

If you are going to test something, do it right.

Yanman.be · Sep 16, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul of seraphs

Wild blow? are you joking? I honestly seriously hope to god you mean wild 'strike'. And switching doesnt make you a 'real sin' it makes you just that much more distracted. there i go re-quoting myself.

Perhaps because Wild Blow always does a crit hit? Therefor you have the same damage formula, irregardless of what daggers you use. Off course, this will take out the random factor, and is actually equally bad to test your opinion, because you will be only testing it vs 17 base dmg, and not 7 or anything in between. 15% of 17 is more than 15% of 7, you see?

There's no reason to use Black Mantis Thrust is there?

So you're distracted by weapon swapping? Boy, am I glad you don't play monk in high level GvG... most of them swap weapons for every spell they cast...

Oh, and no need to insult someone because they don't care about expensive weaponry when I can kill just as good with my 0 gold equipment... J menu ftw!

RhanoctJocosa · Sep 16, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul of seraphs

1) I made it because it was bugging me, not because i wanted to see how many bees nests i can stir up.

2) Youre right, you dont NEED it, its just better to have it.

3) I CARE ABOUT MY GOLD DAGGERS, DICK. besides, aside from the salient daggers those are just some daggers i bought specifically for the experiment.

4) I play just fine, ty. I dont need or want your input.

1) If you're a half decent _player_ you'll realise sins only need x amount of energy (never more than what radiant insignias provide) for spiking and even if it's not a spike build you will frequently get 3 energy on hit, thus eliminating the need for +5e daggers. I.e. if you had a brain you wouldn't make this thread.
2) +5e daggers would only be needed if you desperately needed to pull a skill off, e.g. shadow prisoning on a flagger who is about to cap with like ~3 seconds left for your boost.
3) You might, noone else cares.
4) ..................

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul of seraphs

Wild blow? are you joking? I honestly seriously hope to god you mean wild 'strike'. And switching doesnt make you a 'real sin' it makes you just that much more distracted. there i go re-quoting myself.

you know what wild blow does right..................?